Quote by: machinariI certainly hope that you guys aren't pluggin for the job of pr guy, cuz really, c'mon, all this complaining about what you aren't getting or how unsatisfying this or that is and how the devs suck so much.. Clearly you all want the site to look great and be inviting and all that stuff that you mentioned, but you might as well be defacing the site what with all your complaining about this or that not happening the way you all think it should, etc. Talk about showmanship? don't.
Let me state for the record, I do not want to be a PR guy. I'm just someone who cares about Geeklog, and likes to make it look pretty. :wink: I think it unfair of you to put words in my mouth about how devs "suck". I've never said anything of the sort. Period. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Quote by: machinari
The last couple weeks have been so depressing I haven't wanted to even visit geeklog.net. But of course I did for some morbid urge to see who or what was going to get cut down next.
To my knowledge, I've never participated in any of the behavior you describe above. If you feel I have, please point it out to me, because I
am only human and perhaps my intent was misinterpreted.
Quote by: machinari
Beyond any of that, I do agree that a pr guy would be cool. and a copywriter that has ever done any shouldn't really need to be told what to write. They should be competent enough to figure it out. Like all of us who already click a few times before we find the info we're looking for, and we do find it eventually (don't say you don't), the info is there for the dude to do whatever he does with it, wrap it in a colorful bow or whatever...
I agree with you completely. However, like Mark Evans points out below on the dev mailing list this evening:
Quote by: mevans
I've watched this thread with interest. The feeling I've walked away with
is that there seems to be a big desire to not include anything done outside
the core group.
Yes, some info is there. Some of it is current, and some is outdated terribly, almost embarassingly. Yes, one can do whatever one wants with it, but ultimately, how does duplicating content on another GL site help the main project? Wouldn't it be better to focus that energy in one main place, consolidating the community rather than fragmenting it?
Let me give an example. I saw a need for more themes for GL. I began porting, not complaining. I solicited feedback because I highly value others input, (not praise mind you, input - there is a big difference there) and feel that all ideas are important (part of the reason I feel it important to express my own ideas :wink: ) I receive feedback - not so much here, but at gllabs.org. I continue exploring different theme ideas, releasing my work back to the GL community that I feel I've become a part of. Time goes on, I see the need to document how I go about porting themes. Perhaps my knowledge will help another. I state that observation (much like I have stated other observations above) and Mark gives me Wiki access on his site and says, "Have at it!" The results of Mark's generosity, and trust, can be viewed
here. My hope is that it has benefited the GL community in some way. Nothing more, nothing less. Fast forward a bit. I share with Mark that I am thinking about starting a GL theme site, and ask his advice since he has a great site. He gives me his thoughts among which is an invitation to use his site for that purpose
and opens the door to me without reservation. He gives me full admin access to the site and full FTP! To say the least I am humbled, and have a lot of respect for him and his willingness to give me a shot. Since that time, I've continued with my theme creation hobby. A little while ago, I'm poking through the dev email list and I see several theme discussions going on (August's archive mainly). And Mark approaches me with the idea of a new theme for GL. I start working, and this thread is the result of that. I've never once said that this
will be the new theme for GL. I said
potentially.
Quote by: machinari
even all this talk about a new default theme.. fine. it may be a good idea and exciting and all that, but when it looks like the new theme might not make it into 1.5, if even at all, then let's get down on the devs some more cuz surely they must suck.
Neither Dirk, Blaine, or anyone else has said the theme will not be included. I have directly asked Blaine yesterday, and echoed the same on the dev mailing list. I am patiently waiting for a yay or nay. I understand everyone is busy, and are probably debating it amongst themselves, as I would do if I were in their shoes. Whatever the outcome, I'm happy. If not included in 1.5, I'll release it as a stand-alone theme for 1.4.1. (And even if it is included, I'll probably release a stand-alone 1.4.1 version, since that what it's currently running on.) But here's the rub - a decision needs to be made on the theme soon, if GL1.5 is going to be going into beta sometime in November or the end of the year, as Dirk stated he would like to see happen in the mailing list.
Quote by: machinari
Don't get me wrong, as I go in yet another direction, the theme in question looks great if even still "looking" like the present theme, and the new functionality that geiss has introduced into it is awesome--I'm impressed, btw--but because it remains so similar to the look and feel of the present theme I have to ask, what's the big deal? Why is my inbox full with questions like, "why haven't you given me an answer yet?" whether the question is about the default theme or some code that should be in the core or why nobody has asked you or you or some other you to be on the core team yet when you've done such awesome work for the community?
The look remaining similar to the professional theme was intentional. Again, my goal was to not re-invent the wheel, but to just give it a face lift. The professional theme is a good theme. Well contructed, light-weight, renders well across platforms, etc. All I am trying to do is
build upon it with some new style. Please point me to an email from the dev list where "why haven't you given me an answer yet?" has come from my address.
Quote by: machinari
glad I'm not a core dev cuz you'd all be bching at me. I couldn't put up with the complaints. of course I can hardly put up with constructive criticism nevermind bching.
I don't feel I've slighted anyone here. You are of course free to disagree. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's a dialogue, and that's what is important. I understand where you are coming from re: constructive criticism. Sometimes its hard to step back and be objective. Especially when you have worked so hard on something and others find little value in it. I think you'd agree though, what's worse is silence.
Quote by: machinari
my 2 cents? if you want better pr, do better pr. Write some stuff up. Heck, geiss, have someone take all the current content from gl and put it up into your new theme, rearranged and rewritten or whatever, then show the core devs what "it" could be.
I don't want to do PR, but I do enjoy creating themes.
Mark has shared his resources with me, and I appreciate it and have been doing what you describe above. That is what
http://geiss.getmyip.com/gl141 is all about.
Quote by: machinari
So I guess all that counts as a complaint too then, eh? whoops.
:doh:
One final thought occured to me. Anyone following the dev list, please know that my crusade for XHTML is separate from the theme development I am doing. They are not dependent upon each other.
Thx!
Eric
Synergy - Stability - Style --- Visit us at glfusion.org
